After the collapse of the western Roman Empire in the 400s, most of the conquered European peoples retained the version of the Middle Eastern religion, Christianity, that the Romans had imposed upon them. They called it Roman Catholicism. Following the Renaissance and with the printing press making religious books more accessible, a questioning and protest of this 1500 year old version of the religion began throughout parts of Western Europe. This protest is known as the Protestant Reformation.
We have read about reformers like Martin Luther & John Calvin who challenged the Roman Catholic version of Christianity. Look over your readings and answer the following question in the "comments" section. As is our practice, reply to two of your classmates with a statement or a clarifying question.
Does Martin Luther or John Calvin have a more significant impact?
- Use Key terms from our readings to both briefly describe and then defend your response.
- All responses are valid as long as we support our response with evidence from the readings.
- Look back at our "Rules" for answering questions completely from our classwork on 9/21.
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ReplyDeleteBoth Martin Luther and John Calvin challenged many of the practices and beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church's interpretation of Christianity. The person who I feel had a more significant impact has to be Luther. Luther would receive a lot of recognition from Calvin, since Luther technically "inspired" Calvin. Not to mention, he began The Protestant Reformation in 1517, which changed the Christian way forever. This perspective quickly spread throughout Europe and changed Christian methods and ideologies. He was the first person to introduce the reformist ideas to the world. Calvin did add onto it. and he did also take it a step further, but mainly from Luther's works. After being excommunicated by the pope, he made a schism occur, and began to lead his followers out of Christianity. The schism about European Christianity never healed fully, which ALLOWED Calvin to continue Luther's ideology.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Luther had a larger impact than Calvin because Calvin couldn't have done anything without there being a path already set by Luther.
DeleteI agree with this. Martin Luther King was the one who really changed things so that it could succesfully move forward through modern times.
DeleteI agree with this since Calvin was moreover a follower who radicalized ideas Luther had already used to separate Europeans from the start, he was more someone honing a craft than directly changing it.
DeleteI agree that Luther inspired Calvin so he should be seen as having a bigger impact than Calvin had. He is the one who started the movement and Calvin just added on.
DeleteI agree because the road Calvin walked was paved by Luther, and while Calvins role was important, he can't receive as much credit.
DeleteMartin Luther had a more significant impact on the Protestant Reformation because whilst Calvin influenced and expanded the beliefs of the Protestant Reformation Luther founded and led it. Luther stood up and challenged the Roman Church and their ideals influencing any others. Next when the pope expelled him he fought back and lead his followers away from the Roman Catholicism and created a schism. Without this divide Calvin would not have the means to spread his ideals and further reform the reformation. Overall Calvin influenced and changed the ideals more but none of this would have been possible without Luther. That is why Martin Luther had a more significant impact that John Calvin in the Protestant Reformation.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this because it was very significant to see Luther stand up to the Roman Church. Sharing his beliefs publicly feels much more important.
DeleteI agree because Martin Luther started it all. John Calvin simply built off of what Martin Luther started.
DeleteI agree where you say none of Calvin's activities could have been possible without Luther because he is the one who started it all.
DeleteI agree with you on the fact that Luther did create the schism, but I think that Calvin further expanded it more than Luther did.
DeleteI agree with you because Luther created the schism and the gap in European Christianity and allowed Calvin to expand it.
DeleteMartin Luther King had a more significant impact on the Protestant Reformation because he challenged the flawed ideas and remodeled it into more of what we see of it today. John Calvin did a lot to start up these beliefs but MLK was the one who changed the structure and adapted it so that it could be much more accepting of others.
ReplyDeleteI agree because Martin Luther was the first to challenge the Roman Church and then John Calvin followed, so he was the one who changed the structure so it could be more accepting of others.
Deletei disagree with you because even though martin Luther started it he didn't do much to improve his case all he did was challenge the church.
DeleteMartin Luther had the more significant impact on the Protestant Reformation because he laid out the path for reform for John Calvin. In 1517, Luther openly challenged the basic practices of the Roman Catholic Church in Germany as well as one of the strongest political authorities. He claimed salvation could be reached by good works and loyalty. In 1520, after being excommunicated, Luther created the first schism within European Christianity. It was after he began this revolt that John Calvin was able to become one of the most influential reformers after Luther. Even though Calvin was able to get more things done, none of the ideas he had like predestination would exist had it not been for Luther's efforts. Therefore, Martin Luther had the more significant impact because he started it all.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Martin Luther had a stronger impact of the protestant Reformation because of how Luther led the way and carved a path for future followers and influencers like Calvin.
DeleteI agree with your thoughts that Martin Luther was the one who inspired Calvin to follow along. The schism had a significant effect on Calvin's actions.
DeleteI agree that Martin Luther had a bigger hand, who created the reformation, and John Calvin and a wave of new protestants followed his ideas and beliefs.
DeleteMartin Luther had a more significant impact on the protestant reformation. He sparked the differences in the Christian community, and John Calvin was more someone who radicalized and built upon thins Luther had already introduced. Luther was a crucial role separating Europeans, even when it came to conquering the Americas
ReplyDeleteI agree--all of Calvin's changes were built off of Luther's ideals.
DeleteI disagree because Luther did not really introduce any major doctrinal changes.
DeleteWhile both Martin Luther and John Calvin had impacts on the Protestant Reformation. I believe Martin Luther had a more significant impact. The reason I say this is because Martin Luther started it all. He is the one who originally chose to speak out. Which in turn encouraged others to stick with his ideas. He spoke out but chose not to revolt against the church once the church excommunicated him then he led people out of the church entirely. Although John Calvin had gone even farther that Luther did saying that "human institutions could affect an individual’s prospects for salvation." he is only adding to what Luther already did and therefore shouldn't be known as having a bigger impact.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you, because Calvin said the opposite of your quote and said that human institutions couldn't affect your being after death. Also, Calvin introduced that idea of predetermination after Luther died, so therefor he didn't expand on the belief, he made it.
DeleteI agree with you. I think if Luther had not spoken out and created Lutheranism, Calvin would have never been able to secede and create Calvinism.
DeleteEven though Luther did start the Protestant religion, the religion wouldn't have gone anywhere and wouldn't really have any big ideals if it weren't for John Calvin. Calvin made one of the big ideas of the protestants, the idea of predetermination. This meant that one was already picked to go to hell or heaven before they were even born, and that you couldn't change it even if you did great things for God during your lifetime. Calvin also progressed Luther's idea that human institutions could affect your standing with God in any ways. Calvin thought that you could still have a religious life by trying to figure out which place you were destined to go. Luther just separated him and his religion from the Catholic church based on limited ideals, but Calvin actually made those ideals into something unique and different.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your reasoning that Luther was the person who basically set up a roadway for Calvin to follow. He was inspired by him to follow in his footsteps.
DeleteI agree with you because even though it was important to start the movement you really needed john to get the movement anywhere.
DeleteI think you bring up an interesting point because Protestantism probably would not have gotten very fair if it weren't for Calvin. However, I think that Luther's question of authority encouraged Calvin to also speak up about his rejections to the Catholic belief.
DeleteI believe Luther had a more significant impact then Calvin. Luther was the one who originally expressed his ideas, and that inspired others to believe in his ideas. He was the one that laid out the path for Calvin. He was the one that created the first schism in European Christianity. Therefore, I believe Luther had a more significant impact.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Luther paved a path for Calvins future and that Luther was the one who originally expressed his ideas so it is him who was most significant.
DeleteI would argue that Martin Luther had a much more significant impact that John Calvin. Martin Luther was the first one to "secede" from Catholicism and to stand up against the Pope, whereas Calvin merely followed in Luther's footsteps. Martin Luther directly challenged the church and pointed out the corruption, where you could buy a letter of indulgence which basically forgave all your sins and was a free pass to heaven if you could pay the sum. Luther exposed this and many other parts of the church for what they truly were, and this was groundbreaking. Luther paved the way for Calvin and others to separate from the church and have some sort of choice in terms of religion.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Martin Luther begun and John Calvin was inspired by him and followed in his footsteps.
DeleteI think that that it was john Calvin that had a much more significant impact then martin Luther as martin Luther did more of bringing them together but didn't really do anything more then challenge the church and when he did that he only made a huge separation between them. but it was john that that really went further and really made all the changes that martin Luther should have done.
ReplyDeleteWhile I do agree that they were both influential, I would argue that Luther starting the reformation had more effect that anything Calvin would have done, and that he would not have even considered starting new branches of the church as an option.
DeleteI agree with this
DeleteLuther started the reformation and I would say he had a bigger effect than Calvin, seeing as he started the movement and laid the groundwork for everything while Calvin just added onto it. Luther led the first schism. If the secession from roman catholism is a house, Luther built the foundation and created the blueprints, while Calvin added a pool and carpets
ReplyDeleteYeah I agree, it felt as though Calvin was piggy-backing off of what Luther did.
DeleteAlthough I think they both had a great impact, Luther had a bigger one in the end, Luther not only was the one who inspired Calvin, but he also set of the schism which led to the eventual reformation. If Luther hadn’t taken the first blow at the Catholic Church, Calvin would have never ever spoken out. Luther was the first influential person to speak out against and disagree with the Catholic Church. Without Luther the reformation probably would have never happened.
ReplyDeleteI agree that without Luther there would be no way that Calvin could've accomplished what he did without Luther first stepping up.
DeleteI would argue that Martin Luther had a much more significant role in the protestant reformation. One reason for this was that he lit the fuse that started the whole Protestants vs Catholics fire. If Martin Luther had not exposed the Church, then John Calvin would've never started his own group of Calvinists, and they would've never existed. Luther was the first to break free from the chains of obedience from the church, starting a whole religious reformation.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but I still wonder if someone else would have taken Martin Luther's place, had he not broken off, leading to Calvinists existing anyway. This is, of course, entirely impossible to prove either way, unless we have a time machine.
DeleteI agree if Martin Luther did not express his beliefs and feelings against the Catholics then Calvin wouldn't have been seen as important with the spreading of the beliefs. Without Margin Luther, Calvin would be no one important. Proving that Martin Luther was the most impactful person of the two.
DeleteWhile they were both incredibly influential, Martin Luther started the protestant reformation with his 95 theses, and John Calvin followed in his footsteps. Calvin never would have broke off from the Catholic Church if Luther hadn't inspired him to, and neither would anyone else. Luther's main issue was with the church itself, and he was fighting to fix it from within until the pope excommunicated him. Calvin's ideals, on the other hand, were very specific to his own beliefs in the Bible.
ReplyDeleteI agree. It does seem as though John Calvin did not inspire any main political impact (rather a more theological one), while Martin Luther caused a massive political upheaval.
DeleteI agree Calvin only spread the beliefs but Martin Luther created the beliefs of the Protestant Reformation. Martin Luther is much more important than Calvin compared in the impact they gave.
DeleteI agree that Martin Luther may have inspired John Calvin.
DeleteI would argue that Calvin had the most impact of the two, because while Luther did start the Protestant reformation and a church of his own, his ideas did not separate much from the main catholic doctrine at the time and his main grievances with the church were one of practice rather then theological. Also frustration with the church was mounting at the time and with the introduction of the printing press the Catholic Church could no longer clamp down on the flow of information as easily. This created the.perfect storm of events and I would argue that It Luther had not done what he did then another priest would start the reformation to similar effect. Calvin, on the other hand started a belief that would be central to many new churches that would spring out of the reformation, predestination. In this way Calvin influenced the actually philosophy of many new churches a great deal, whereas I believe that Luther to some extent, was just at the right place at the right time.
ReplyDeleteI think that Marin Luther had a more significant impact on religion in this time period as opposed to John Calvin regarding challenged the Roman Catholic Church openly. Without Luther paving the way in 1517 for John he would have most likely been dismissed of and there wouldn't be enough people without Martins beliefs coming to life to appreciate and follow John. It was only after Martin defiance that people throughout Europe that people started to separate from the Catholic Church. As well as this, without people starting to separate from the church John wouldn't have been able to accomplish anything. Overall Martin had a stronger impact on the reformation movement that spread across all of Europe which also lead to more religions arising and ultimately changing the structure and dynamic in this period of Europe. The only concrete thing that John accomplished was introducing the concept of predestination which was the idea that people’s destinies are already written out for them.
ReplyDeleteJohn Calvin and Martin Luther both had significant impacts on the religion of Christianity, but Martin Luther's impact was more significant. I believe that Martin Luther's impact was more significant due to its long-term changes. Martin Luther's ideas created the sect of protestantism, while John Calvin's ideas led to the many puritan groups. However, Protestantism still survives today, with a huge number of followers, while many puritan groups no longer exist or are extremely small. Additionally, Martin Luther's ideas were more important short-term. The protestant reformation caused an extreme reduction in the power of the catholic church, which was one of the main world powers at the time. John Calvin's ideas merely expanded on the Protestant Reformation, and many of the impacts he caused would likely have happened without him, though possibly to a lesser extent.
ReplyDeleteMartin Luther's impact was indeed long-term compared to John Calvin's, in addition to the fact that without Luther's influence, John Calvin's ideas wouldn't have gone so far.
DeleteBecause Martin Luther challenged the flawed ideas and remodeled the Protestant Reformation, he had a more significant impact on the Protestant Reformation. John Calvin spread the beliefs that Martin Luther had founded but Martin Luther was the one who changed the structure of beliefs and started all the beliefs. Martin Luther being more significant because he created the beliefs and Calvin just spread them.
ReplyDeleteI think that although both Martin Luther and John Calvin both had significant impacts on the protestant reformation, Martin Luther had a larger impact. I think that Martin Luther inspired John Calvin a little bit. John Calvin followed in Martin Luther's footsteps and may not have started if it wasn't for him. Martin Luther challenged people and ideas causing it to be more like it is now.
ReplyDeleteI agree because Martin Luther took the first step in challenging the Catholic Church and he set it up so that others would follow and challenge authority as well.
DeleteMartin Luther has a more significant impact on the Protestant Reformation because although Calvin went further, no one would have challenged the Catholic Church if it weren't for Luther. Both Luther and Calvin needed each other in order to develop the Reformation, but Luther is the one from where it all began. He created a schism in European Christianity, challenged the Pope, and was not afraid to stand up against authority. Calvin might have introduced the doctrine of predestination, presenting another perspective from the Catholic religion, but Luther is the one who began to challenge the people with power, allowing others like Calvin to realize that they too could question authority.
ReplyDeleteTo me, Martin Luther would have the more significant impact with the future development of European Christianity. He was the first outspoken person to go against the ideals of the then powerful Roman Catholic Church. He reached out to the common people, which meant his ideas spread quickly. Even without meaning to, he managed to divide the religious faith as a whole. While John Calvin was more influential to the people, his path was basically assisted by Martin Luther. Without him, John Calvin could've have been less known, especially with his more radical ideals.
ReplyDelete