The first permanent English American settlement, Jamestown, was only a success if we compare it to Roanoke, which as we recall disappeared. The popular theory is that maybe the colonials at Jamestown were completely unprepared and thus the colony failed. The attached links in google classroom offer an alternative theory.
After viewing only the 1st 14 minutes of the video (0:00 to 14:00) and reading the two links, respond as a comment to this prompt:
Does the evidence about the colony being sabotaged through poisoning appear convincing?
Share why or why not?
Reply to two others as is our practice with a quick question that the commenter can consider but will not answer. (ex. Do you think?... Have you considered?...)
I think that the theory about the English being poisoned seems completely plausible. Many of the afflictions that the settlers experienced were also symptoms of Arsenic poisoning, and the idea that the Spaniards tried to remove the colony by poison does not seem too far fetched. The colonists had ratsbane in the fort anyways, which is made of arsenic, which adds more credibility to the theory. However, some also suspect that because of the rats in the colony, the colonists caught the Black Death. However much we speculate though, we are currently unable to prove whether the colonists actually were poisoned, and we may never know.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think that plague could have been a possible outcome so it is too difficult to tell what exactly wiped out so many colonists.
DeleteThere could have been many explanations as to why the English were poisoned. Rats could have played a major part, but then again, there is the possibility that there is another unknown reason that caused the deaths.
DeleteI agree because its hard to say that something happened in this colony so many years ago in history. I think most things are possible because no-one can say it didn't happen.
DeleteI think that both theories could've worked and played out, although perhaps there would've been different symptoms if it was The Black Death.
DeleteI don't think that the theory of the English being poisoned is too far fetched. If the English seemed like a threat to other colonies nearby including the Spanish, it might have been a possibility for them to try and wipe them out. I felt that if the colonists were being starved and there were great shortages of food, there should have been more that had survived. Only about 60 of 500 survived, which makes me believe that it could have been poisoning rather than starvation, which I would have assumed would affect slightly less people. However, I'm not entirely sure because there isn't enough evidence for me to be sure.
ReplyDeleteThe amount of evidence that was given wasn't very decisive that the English were poisoned, making the reason unclear as to what wiped out the English.
DeleteI agree. I believe that the English being poisoned is hard to believe.
DeleteI agree while it is definitely a possibility that they could have been poisoned. There just isn't enough evidence of the poison found other than writings of symptoms so for now its difficult to believe.
DeleteI agree that poisoning is definitely a possible occurrence, but there just isn't enough evidence to prove or disprove it.
DeleteI agree because its a mass amount of deaths that don't I believe it just can be blamed on a lack of food but yes on a plague or mass poisoning.
DeleteI agree that it's possible for the English to have been poisoned but there isn't enough evidence to know for sure.
DeleteI think that there wasn't enough evidence and the evidence there was could have also been due to the settlers not knowing the plants native to the area they settled in and getting sick due to those
DeleteAlthough the evidence was quite convincing, I do not believe this theory. The fact that the Spanish saw the English as a threat and wanted to wipe them out, seems a bit ridiculous. Perhaps rats did have some part in the end of the English, as the rats did carry the black death. But the idea of the Spanish wanting to wipeout the English is foolish to me.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that the theory may seem a bit ridiculous there is still possibility that it could have happened. The Spanish were enemies of the English as it says in the video they were already colonizing America from the south. The possibility for competition may have urged them to try to intervene but there is also not enough evidence to prove it.
DeleteI agree with Michael because it may seem far-fetched but there are several things that make it seem as though the Spanish wanted to wipe out their rivals. They had the intent and resources necessary to get rid of the English, so the idea should not be completely dismissed.
DeleteI agree with Michael. There were many reasons for the Spanish to wipe the English, but even so, the poisoning seems plausible but slightly random and plucked from thin air.
DeleteWhile I agree that the idea might sound a bit ridiculous, the Spanish definitely had a motive for wanting the English gone, although there's not solid evidence.
DeleteI agree that there may not be the best evidence to know for sure but I still think there's a possibility that they were poisoned.
DeleteI agree -- it's plausible and it could have happened, but it's much more likely that there was some other cause to the mass deaths.
DeleteYeah I agree, there were so many dangers that could have befallen the settlers, poisoning is just one plausible answer
DeleteI agree, its a possibility but others are more likely in my opinion
DeletePerhaps the rats did play a part in it, but the Spanish weren't stupid. They saw the that there could be an uprising of colonies in the North and probably suspected that they could grow into big trade outposts and even cities for the English. To say that the Spanish wanted to wipe out the English is a long shot, but I think it was more to slow them down if anything. If they wanted to kill them all, they could've just poisoned every English settlement
DeleteLooking at the video and the websites, it is safe to say that the English being poisoned is a completely reasonable occurrence, despite the possibility that is was an entirely different factor that wiped them out. The rivalry between the English and the Spanish was going on for quite some time, and the use of arsenic poison was already used. It is possible that the Spanish used the poison to sabotage the English population, killing many of the men in Jamestown. The symptoms the Jamestown people suffered from could have been from the poisoning, and not from the other factors, which include disease and starvation. Symptoms can include "bloody diarrhea — extreme weakness, and delirium. All are symptoms of arsenic poisoning." Arsenic poisoning isn't the only possibility, however. Due to Jamestown being located in a swampy landmass, if the settlers ingested its brackish waters, some researchers have speculated, they could have become ill with salt poisoning. "if the settlers ingested its brackish waters, some researchers have speculated, they could have become ill with salt poisoning," further expanding the poisoning theory. Even though it is unclear as to how the English could have died, poison could have played a major role, and the evidence proves just so.
ReplyDeleteI agree because although there can be other causes for their deaths, poison is one of the major causes.
DeleteArsenic poison was well known. But I believe there was little motive. If Spain wanted America they would not only go there but send a whole group of men and try to fight the English, which they did. They would not go about it in a way that could possibly not work and is cowardly. Also, pride plays an issue here in two different ways. The Spanish would be too prideful to poison them and not make a show of destroying the English. Furthermore, the English's' pride would entice them into saying it was poison. They wouldn't want to feel weak of defeated. So they resort to poison.
DeleteAlso that thing above was me Isaiah
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DeleteWhile some of the symptoms do match up with the symptoms of arsenic poisoning, I don't think that's what happened. The Spanish most likely would have used another method that would have guaranteed wiping out the colony.
DeleteI agree that it might have been poison but in my opinion it doesn’t sound as logical that the Spanish would do this but it could be possible. I would say this is very convincing but I do think differently.
DeleteThere definitely is a possibility that the Spanish could have tried to sabotage the English with poison. But I just don't think there is enough evidence to firmly say that that is what happened. The Spanish could have sabotaged them. But how. How did the poison get to them without anyone knowing. While they did have some symptoms of arsenic poisoning its not clear on how they got the poison so I cant believe that theory for now. The rats carrying the plague would definitely be a possibility though since if they had a rat problem and as it was said that there were remains of black rats in the food. That's solid evidence meaning its definitely a possibility.
ReplyDeleteThe claim that the Spanish poisoned the English is definitely reasonable. We already know that the English were vulnerable from being constantly attacked by the Algonquian natives. The Spanish wanted to see them perish, so it makes sense to accuse them of trying to wipe out the colony with poisoning. There is some evidence that claims otherwise saying it could have been rats from Europe carrying arsenic trioxide or the English drinking the brackish water in their swamps. These are just as believable, but there is no way of knowing what actually caused only 60 of 500 settlers to survive. To put it plainly, it is rational to think that the Spanish poisoned the English because the resources and the intent that it took to eliminate Jamestown.
ReplyDeleteThe evidence is convincing however it also works against them. the English vulnerability was an opening for Spanish foul play but could also just be the downfall of the English. They were not prepared and that is why they died.-Isaiah
DeleteI respectfully disagree because the Spanish were such a power In the world at this point they would not have been concerned with a tiny colony on the edge of the new world.
DeleteI agree, it is reasonable but I believe that it could have been something different and I just don’t believe it but the evidence is reasonable and it could be possible, so I kind of bias but leaning to disagree with the theory.
DeleteThe evidence that the English men the lived in the colony of Jamestown were poisoned it convincing. However, I do not believe it to be true. The argument states that one thing alone could not cause so many deaths. But, that could be easily refuted by stating that there were many different factors that contributed to the deaths of the people at Jamestown. The people of Jamestown were under attack from both natives, diseases, and famine. All of these issues most likely caused their downfall. Their medicine was awful and their protection fairly weak. Although the evidence is perfectly convincing. It can be refuted and I believe it not to be true. -Isaiah
ReplyDeletethe idea of the Jamestown settlers being poisoned sounds very reasonable. the man offers the fact that starvation yes would have killed many people but for such symptoms to show in the writings from those times saying that a person could be alive and healthy one day and suddenly just for people to see them dead the next day isn't something that happens just out of a starvation. he also says that they showed all the symptoms related with arsenic poisoning which included their skin peeling. plus it was a substance that one could easily get ahold of.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement since many symptoms of the time were uncommon when coming from only starvation. The act of not cannibalising bodies to sustain themselves also reinforces this idea
DeleteThe idea of the Jamestown Settlers being poisoned is logical and makes sense. All of their symptoms matched the symptoms for arsenic poisoning, including the fact that their skin peeled off and whatnot.In addition, if they were to have died because of starvation, it would've been slow and gradual when their food slowly ran out. To me, with the Spanish having a clear goal and intent on getting Jamestown, it is reasonable that this theory would be true.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the symptoms matching arsenic poisoning are a solid piece of evidence, but I am not sure how much Spain would have wanted to destroy Jamestown, seeing as their power in the New World was pretty absolute (their forts and empire in the Americas)
DeleteThe idea that the Jamestown Settlers were poisoned seems reasonable. I don't think they died from starvation because so many of them died and so many people wouldn't have died this quickly from starvation, starvation is a slower process. In addition, some of the symptoms the settlers faced were also the symptoms for arsenic poisoning including peeling skin. Not everyone got along well with the English settlers so it's possible that they were poisoned.
ReplyDeleteHave you considered who would have had the opportunity to poison all of the colonists?
DeleteThe idea that the Jamestown settlers were poisoned seems very likely to me. A starvation death would have been much slower, and this death was quicker. The symptoms of the soldiers were very similar to arsenic poisoning symptoms, including face peeling. Many people did not want the English to colonize places so its likely they were poisoned.
ReplyDeleteThere is evidence that the colonists at Jamestown suffered from arsenic poisoning, but I do not think that anyone was motivated enough against the English to attempt to poison them in this specific way. It was not a guarantee, and it would have taken a lot of effort to poison the entire colony. I think it's much more likely that these sicknesses originated from their consumption of rats, as they seemed to have buried their dead quickly, which implies that they were scared of catching the disease themselves.
ReplyDeleteI agree because it would have been an incredible logistical challenge for relatively little payoff.
DeleteI agree. It feels like it isn't all that possible, it''s difficult to really rule it out.
DeleteI do see your evidence as logical, but I think the payoff would actually be greater than you would think. Jamestown could've been a great English outpost if not for the sicknesses, and surely the Spanish thought of this. One Spanish impostor could've put the arsenic in the main water source and simply ran away.
DeleteI do agree that while there is some evidence to suggest that there was a poisoning I do not believe this actually happened, this is because it is so completely random, the Spanish had an empire spanning continents I doubt they would have been afraid of a tiny colony that could barley feed itself, also Spain was more concerned with its arch rival, Portugal.
ReplyDeleteI think that the evidence about poisoning is there, but not completely convincing, and I think the starving time was because of both hunger and disease, because hunger is pretty obvious, as landing on a new territory and to prosper is extremely difficult to manage, and also the natives were also exposed to huge diseases that killed so many natives, so why not the settlers as well? Also, maybe because they were starving they ate things that caused them sickness.
ReplyDeleteThe last reason you mentioned makes a lot of sense, and I also think some of the factors you mentioned could have combined to weaken the settlers and eventually kill them.
DeleteI think your deduction is reasonable as the English were not skilled in discerning good food from those that spread sickness, and it was a skill the natives taught them.
DeleteI think that the arsenic poison explanation seems a little weak, as there doesn't seem to be much opportunity or reason for a Spanish person to poison the colony. However, since the colonists used arsenic to poison rats and then ate the rats that might have given them the arsenic and killed them. I also think that it seems plausible for them to have been weakened by starvation, arsenic, and the plague, which could have combined to be very deadly and explained the mentions of starvation in historical accounts.
ReplyDeleteThe arsenic poison explanation does seem a bit flimsy. Maybe it was a combination of all mentioned above though.
DeleteI do not believe the theory that the Spanish wanted to wipe out the English and poisoned them. The Spanish, I believe did want the English gone and get rid of them but I don’t think they would go to the process of doing a mass poisoning to all of them, at that point in time in my opinion, that doesn’t sound quite possible but the evidence given of it and how they were possibly poisoned was very sensible to notice and easy to believe, I just don’t believe that they poisoned all of them just to get rid of them.
ReplyDeleteI can see where you're getting at. Maybe they only poisoned a few of the colonists? But, if so, why would they? Maybe the colonists weren't poisoned after all.
DeleteBased on the information, the conclusion of poisoning is a plausible cause for the deaths in Jamestown. All symptoms link to Arsenic poisoning, and does help fill in strange gaps of time. If they were dying of starvation, the English would not die off that fast, even if they had to deal with the natives. The location of the colony was inadequate to deal with diseases, and was in native territory, making help impossible.
ReplyDeleteThe claim that the English were poisoned was very probable, for the Spanish were kind of getting backed into a corner due to the English pirates. The Spanish knew that Jamestown would probably grow to be a strong, stable base of operations for the English, so taking it out would weaken their future power, and disrupt their plans for America. The plan wouldn't have taken a lot of money, and only one person to infect the English. I would've used anthrax, because it kills fast and probably would've given Americans a fear of it early on, therefore saving the many deaths by anthrax killer,(look it up if you have to), so that's another plus. Sorry for digressing, but untimely I do believe that the Spanish did infect the English.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the Spanish assumed that Jamestown would grow to be such a strong English power? A lot of them died on their voyage alone. What evidence is there that they were a threat?
DeleteI personally believe that the theory of arsenic poisoning isn't possible, even if other nations such as Spain wouldn't want the English to be in the New World. I feel like in order to poison the entirety of Jamestown, you'd need a steady supply of arsenic, and a place to put it, like a water supply. I feel like conditions at Jamestown wasn't an ideal place for poisoning, as it was a poor, rundown colony.
ReplyDeleteThe evidence about the colony being sabotaged through poisoning does not appear convincing. For instance, one argument for how the colonists were poisoned was by the Spanish. But how would the Spanish have done it? The people in Jamestown died at different times, so they weren't all killed at once. Also, why wouldn't the Spanish have poisoned more colonies? Is there evidence that the Spanish infiltrated the Jamestown colony? This theory seems unrealistic. I think it is more likely that the colonists in Jamestown were wiped out through a combination of starvation and disease, due to the drought and the accounts of symptoms. Another argument for the arsenic poisoning is the rats. They had a rat problem, so they used arsenic to kill the rats, but this shows that they had arsenic there, so maybe the Spanish used it to poison them. Although this explains why arsenic could have been the cause of death, it also shows that rats could have brought diseases like the Plague, and killed them. One other thing I think could have happened to the people in Jamestown is that they poisoned each other. This wasn't really brought up, but the sources do mention that there was dissension within the colony, especially over power, and the Jamestown colonists had more opportunity to poison each other than the Spanish did.
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